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November2000 West Vancouver Historical Society Page 3 IS THERE A 'RIGHT WAY TO SAY 'DUNDERAVE'? In September's "History-Onics" we noted that some pronounced 'Dundarave' to rhyme with 'rave' and others rhymed it with 'have', and questioned which one was correct - or whether there is a right or a wrong way. We invited readers to tell us how they said it, and why. Only ten took up the challenge - four on the 'rave' side and five 'haves' and one respondent who came to West Van in 1920 reported hearing it both ways even back then! Amongst those who 'rave' about Dundarave was a caller who has lived here since 1926, and another whose long-time resident father (who always said 'rave') came to West Van in 1917! But on the 'have' side one caller went to Dundarave School in 1930-31 and a former director of the Society who lived in the Dundarave area as early as 1927. Obviously there does not appear to be a clear consensus. But where did the name Dundarave come from? and how was/is it pronounced there? Read on. In their book "British Columbia Place Names" G.P.V. and Helen B. Akrigg write that UBC professor R.E. Macnaughten purchased and subdivided land at 'Dundarave' and named it after his family's ancestral home -Dundarave Castle on Loch Fyne in Scotland. They also say it should rhyme with 'have'. I put the question to Sharon Gunn, who has an M.A. from Glasgow University, and who is an expert in Gaelic. She reported: "The 'haves' have it! Dundarave is more like 'haave' in Gaelic. It is spelled Dun-Da-Ramh (The Fortress of the Two Oars) and pronounced 'doon daa raav”'. During this past summer my wife Frances and I were part of a group touring Scotland and our itinerary called for us to pass right by the entrance to Dunderave Castle. It is a private dwelling and while we could not go in, we were able to talk to the head gardener. We put our 'rave' vs 'have' question to him. He did not hesitate to put us straight - the last syllable rhymes with 'have'. It may be of interest to have a quick look at the history of Dunderave Castle. (Yes, that is how it is spelled currently - but not always). The MacNachtan Clan (one Dunderave Castle Photo:Courtesy of Bas Collins the roof and floors of the upper stories. The Ardkinglas Estate was purchased by Sir Andrew Noble in 1905, and his daughter Lily was instrumental in persuading him to restore Dunderave, which by then was essentially a ruin. The task was given to architea Robert Lorimer. Restored and expanded, the Castle became Lily's home until her death in 1937. There have been other caring owners subsequently and it has been in the sympathetic hands of Stephen Joffe since 1990. Over its long history Dunderave has had many spellings. In his definitive book "Dunderave Castle and the MacNachtans of Dunderave" author Matthew Cock reports coming across 21 different spellings during his research. His book shows a map dated 1801 where it is "Dundarave' while today it is 'Dunderave'. Our local spelling of Dundarave is thus quite in keq)ing with that of its namesake. What we seem to have is a common usage which supports either 'rave' or "have'. However, given the unquestioned origin of the name, and the authenticity of the ’ sources cited, one cannot help but be persuaded that the 'haves' have it! And if the facts don't sway you, hear this plea from Lucy Smith one of our earliest members and a former Society Secretary, who came to Dundarave in the 1920's when, she submits, Dundarave was always 'have' and to whom the 'rave' pronunciation is a (relatively) new . corruption. (Please turn to page 8 for Lucy's "plea" and a photograph of the Castle gates.) of many ways that the name has been spelled historically) had moved from Perthshire to Argyll in the 13th century, first to Loch Awe and then to Dubh Loch near Inveraray before building Dunderave Castle five or so miles up Loch Fyne from Inveraray in the 1590’s. It then became the home of the clan chief fw over 100 years. The MacNachtan Clan lost it to the Campbells of Ardkinglas and it became only occasionally occupied, falling into disrepair. The main tower collapsed as did